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How to Advance the Timing on an armature.
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Wed, 10/20/2004 - 20:27
Since people have been asking about it, here it is: All you are doing is twisting the commutator relative to the rest of the armature. When you advance the timing on the motor, you gain top speed (in the forward direction, while losing speed in the reverse direction), at the expense of a little bit of torque. There are limits to how much advance you can get away with before the motor starts running poorly. Stick with what I show in the pictures and you will find the gains to be worthwhile without being too risky.
The first two pictures show the armature with neutral timing. Note how the commutator contact is centered in the gap between the poles of the armature.
The next two show the timing advanced. I try to twist the commutator so that the contact is even with the edge of the pole.
To (gently) twist the commutator, I just grasp it in my fingers, while holding the pinion gear in my other hand. It is possible (and advisable) to do the timing adjustment without removing the armature from the can, as pinion removal tends to force the brass spacer at the front of the armature into the armature windings, causing excessive longitudinal play within the motor. Note that there are small nubs on the end of the commutator that hold it in a neutral position. When you twist the commutator, these nubs will break, allowing it to move. Once you have it where youwant it, you could use a drop of CA glue or the like to hold it in place (towards the windings), though I don't bother, since the rotational force of the motor is primarily on the armature poles, and the commutator is just along for the ride.
Last thing to note is that you create a bit of slack in the windings by doing this, so I tend to try to pull them tight at the contacts, as shown in the bottom picture.
All credit is given to neurokinetik from Tiny RC forum. I just copy and pasted.
I tried this out last night but now it seems slower, but I turned it to about 20d. Maybe cause it doesn't have the torque to get to the top speed :?
The 11degree range is about standard for improving speed without hurting torque too much...that and you'd have less chance at ruining the connections this way.
I know this was a month ago but, where is the best place to twist it to? What degree? Or should I stay around the 11 degree range?
First post of the thread buddy...
will this mod affect the torque of the motor :?
Thanks, xXSoulsRepentXx.
I attempted this mod on my SB/Stage1 60T hybrid, and it definately made the throttle more punchy and responsive. I advanced the timing by around 10 degrees, and am glad I did. It was senseless to have a reverse speed that was equivalent to the forward acceleration anyways.
Hey guys, just remember to allow some slack in the armature wire to allow for the slight rotation.
Hold the armiture by hand if possible, to avoid damage from pliers, etc. Turn the comm slowly, as it may twist suddenly once it does slip.
Dont try to advance the timing too much, as this can have a sluggish effect if overdone. - mech
No they are not different I did this mod to my stage 2 red motor (srift) and it goes like a sob. I think you must have done it wrong. Do not remove the armature from the can... It is alot of work and pointless and you risk getting a gear broken. You do not have to unwind the wires, after you finish advancing the timing simply apply gentle pressure to th wires to make sure they do not touch each other, this will workamazingly trust me, Ive done it to all of my motors. ANd they now beat the piss out of my friends regular stage 2 motors.
Hi,
Only trouble I found was the inside of the stock Gen 1 Stage 2 motors doesn't look like the images. The nubs are actually a soldered lump where the wires of the armature join. There is also a dark grey disk circulating around the where the brushes contact.
WARNING - Don't force the grey disc - IT SHATTERS easily !!!!! :D :D
No idea what it does but the motor still works.
Anyway, I tried a few adjustments and left it at the 11 degree point. Made no difference at all :( :(
Went the other way, still no increase. :( :(
Are these Stage 2 Gen 1 motors different ??
Great mod!!
But I'm having trouble advancing the timing on the EVO motor. I can't get a good grip on the armature like on the Gen1 motors. Has this advancement been done?
Maxx
twist right or left i want forward speed
cool
I did it, but I haven't tested it yet tho. Now I just have to advance my 11T and throw some SB magnets in there to get the brakes back.
Maxx
No you do not. Although I did find it easyer to remove it from the can. I then used needelnose pliers to twist it slightly as shown in the timing illistration.
I do have one question: In the pics, the windings were removed, do you have to unwind the armature to advance the timing?
mini_insane maybe you can answer that for me.
Thanx
Maxx
So cooooool. I just attemted to advance my stage1. Didn't want to screw up the stange 2. Not yet anyway.. Anyway, it tottaly rocks, and although I don't acually have proff of this, it seems that it is as fast or faster thean my stage2. I'll be advancing it after dinner..... This is so cooool!!
You may have to google that one son.
ok this all sounds very interesting but when you guys talk about brushings, pinions, armatures, commutators and such you totally lose me. i'm not familiar with these motors so could someone post a diagram of these kinds of motors so i can better understand what you're talking about? it would be much appreciated.
Its so simple you dont even have to remove the armature from the can.Just pull the plastic cap off the can.Take a pair of needle nose pliers hold thepinon with your finger and advance the timing like the graph shows.The tab is super sensitive so dont go yanking it so hard it detaches from the coil.And dont destroy the brushes with your pliers.
I guy in my town almost beat my z with a stage one with the timing way advanced :oops: .I had a 11 tooth stage 2 we both had 6 cells.He killed me out of the hole but i walked him half track.Both rwd thought i would share.
custom motors are wound tight, so there will be very little play in the wires. be cautious when advancing timing on them.
when advancing the timing it'll increase speed in the forward direction and retards in the reverse direction. on mine, reverse speed and braking power are affected. but IMO on a high torque motor, braking is too powerfull anyway and needs to be cut down.
i think it only works with a s2 or s1 motor, advancing the timing on a upgraded motor, like the XTR was very hard, i even took off a wire tring. the stage 1 and 2 have a very light connection to the armature, but the XTR has a better connection to it......so its harder....
All I did is just took some pliers and adjusted it and it works fine and did inprove the forward speed. :wink:
i no this is extremly off topic but customskyline howd u get banned and can someone tell why mnm got banned / thanx
i dont get it? pull what tight? the wire?
can u post pics? or tut? =]
thanks!
to me it looks like all you have to do is adjust remove the connection between the com contacts and the wire, shift the com contacts, find where the new spots where the wire will connect wight the com contacts, scrape/sand those spots, and reconnect. someone please confirm.
so are you supposed to take the wires off first or what?
when you say pull it tight, pull the whole commutator, or just the wires?
-------edit--------i did it sucsessfuly to 2 motors! but my third try....i broke the magent wire off!!!!
Nice Tut, I think it deserves the sticky, So here you go!
Remember there will be a little slack when you twist it so make sure to pull it tight so there won't be any slack.
nope, i can't get it to twist. pliers...
this worked great, but did any one else's xmods braking saveerly decrease
lol it shouldn't take too much strength. make sure you're twisting the right peice too. You're prolly not dumb but just make sure.
how hard are we supposed to twist? i can't get the comm to move and i'm afraid to break a good sb hybrid :?
Can we make this a sticky or a tut?
What happens when you increase the motors timing!
The part you turn
is where the motor picks up electricity from the brushes.
When the electricity is picked up bt the tabs (parts you turn) it powers the coil which creates an electromagnet out of one arm which pushes away from the magnets in the motor case.
By moving the tabs that pick up the power it gives power to the coil sooner. Which in theory gives better performance and power.
How was that? :lol:
We should expand this tutorial cause that des look like it would help and I've been told that 11 degrees is a sweet spot.
here is a chart that might help some people understand it more.
thats how you do it!
40d is a relatively high timing difference
mnm
I don't really understand how it works. You could always ask the guy on TinyRC that made the tutorial.
Yea that's what I figured. So to advance you turn in the same direction the motor would be turning when going forward?
And what about how it works....
I don't quite understand hw you're confused. Are you saying tat it will retard it in reverse, cause that will happen.
How do you know which direction is advance and which is retard? If you advance it for one direction won't it be retarded in the the other direction?
Just looking at the pics I can't see how that would help anything (probably cuz I know nothing about motors), could you explain it?