UP TO 10 TURNS

^27 TURNS = 26HOURS OF MODELING^

Think hand winding is hard?I don't doubt that it is, but Try it with a mouse and keyboard ...........the above image is the result of over 12 hours of modeling and only has 4 turns so far out of 52. When complete it will be one continuous, 3d pattern wrapped, wound coil ,conformed tightly to the magnet frame model just like the real thing. More detail in your model means less suprises in manufacture. :twisted:

Thats what I was thinking too. Its as easy as making one vented top and bottom plate, and then the other can just be a frame thats simply there for the screws to hold onto. Then, something to hold the magnets, or make the frame big enough on the sides to hold them in...

Alright mad scientist.....I need a towel for my slobber. I'm in deed wanting a taste of this 180 or the 130 when everything is said and done.

Agreed, perhaps I will design a closed "street can" and a open "race can" so it could be upgraded as the enviormental conditions allow.

Well also consider that you dont want a can that too open, allowing dirt and such in. And ideal motor would have no can, just the armature, brushes and something to support the armature. But the reason we do have a can is to keep dirt and debris out.

Know what I mean?

My reasoning behind bending the laminations is to create a scoop effect, giving the motor frame more area to "bite into" the surounding air stream to begin the archemeides effect

As far as airflow where the can is concerned, it will all be reconfigured with a Major devation from original design the goal being to make it lighter , cooler , and much more accessible than the present model. Look for phase III conceptual images when the armature details are complete ,then a brush configuration overhaul.

I LOVE PROGRESSIVE THINKING

But wouldnt the winds in the armature block the air flow? The design idea is genius, but thats the only thing I see. That, and getting sufficent airflow through the can.

Quick question, what does bending the lamenants of each wing do for the performance?

^ :twisted: TWISTED 90 degrees(40 hrs work),,,,,, SLOTTED DESIGN (6 hrs work) ,,,,, BENT 15/-15 degrees (22 hrs work) ,,,,............looking like the devil designed it?...............($PRICELESS$) :twisted:^

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twisterarmatureng0.flv

^Coneptual vid of the TWISTER^

http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=twisterrotatingwt3.flv

^vid of TWISTER rotating^

Well for a motor like this, your going to allready have monster torque, so thats not an issue I would think.

I guess it would all come down to experimenting with different armatures once you get a working prototype. Id aim for doing a spiral armature, like I drew, maybe more spiral... and a lower amount of turns. Thats just where Id start off.

The cooling idea is flippin, sweet. Never thought of using it like that. I dunno, maybe make a mini roots-type supercharger to stick on top, and have it drive off the motor and shove air into the can :lol: Thatd be sick

Very informative artical. I will study it at length ,thank you

<UPDATE>
There is some disturbing information in there seriosly affecting wraiths design. I will have to reconsider material choices for the can. Exellent information though.

Concerning tip position and pole alignment I am translating from the artical that the more tip in the next magnets phase the more torque? what do others think? this being the case wraiths tri helix should work and provide more torque at sacrifice of rpm . Perhaps the sacrifice could be recoverd using feild weakening technologys?

(FIELD WEAKENING):
The introduction of resistance in series with the shunt wound field of a DC motor to reduce the voltage and current which weakens the strength of the magnetic field and thereby increases the motor speed.

wont increasing the twist change the magnetic field?
i think it has something to do with the angle cut into the tip of the magnets,ive not had a chance to read this page in full but it may help you
http://www.slick7.com/S7magnets.html

Very good illustration, exactly the kind of talent I stated this forum contains............... My reasoning for such a extreame twist is to develope a miniture compressor effect that would reduce internal operating temperatures by drawing large amounts of air through the motor. I am also exploring the idea of bending the rotor laminations a small amount. With the combination of twist and bend,I belive the armature itself would operate much like a turbine compressor wheel or supercharger rotor, scooping up air then centrificaly compressing, and pushing it through the magnet frame like a archimedies screw over the coils, This would conduct heat away from the coils and out the vents in the sides, top, bottom, and endbell. I have seen armature assemblies from other applications that use a extreme twists such as I am working on but they are high performance ac motors used in the medical industry.

(now that your picture works)

Is it possible to design it with less of a spiral, since you were worried about it not working properly.

Ill draw what I mean:

A normal spiral armature, and what I think you can do with the wraiths long armature. Notice how they spiral the same ammount:

(now that your picture works)

Is it possible to design it with less of a spiral, since you were worried about it not working properly.

Ill draw what I mean:

A normal spiral armature, and what I think you can do with the wraiths long armature. Notice how they spiral the same ammount:

I agree that brush changes are in order , I'm reluctant to use any injection molded plastic parts due to tooling cost , that would put the whole project way over budget for shure. If I could secure a parts supplier for say the 1/10 style endbells, that would bring the cost back into reasonable focus, it could even lower the cost of the project. Another consideration to take into account is precision of the parts. The use of billit parts by their nature could maintain much closer tolerances than a injection molded plastic part ,as plastic shrinks when its cooled. Being ...well plastic it doesn't always cool the same way shot after shot . The speed of the machine, the operators efficiency , etc., would have to be strictly controled to maintain even a marginal comparison with billit. Just look over two different 1g chassis and you will see the obvious drawback to injection molded part precision.

That said... there is a major advantage to plastic injection parts, production costs (in a large quanitys ),as well as production time are greatly reduced. I am not attacking the plastic injection industry here ,for most things their precision is acceptable, but on a 1/28th scale model .01 translates into a .28 tolerance, thats more than a quarter of an inch in full scale so if you have a +/- 5% tolerance on a plastic peice that that could be on the order of a inch or two (full scale) dependent on precision parameters . Imagine if the axles on your full size car could wobble a inch either way, what a ride that would be, or...... what if the beariings on the engine's crankshaft could flop back and forth a half an inch, how well do you think that engine would run? puts it in perspective I belive.

Billit, on the other hand can maintain tolerances in the .001 range fairly repeatably. Comparable in scale to the full size tolerances. I am going to finish the armature design before I address a brush redesign, but like stated in the begining , it is in order.

This is going to be a very interesting motor.

just a suggestion: you might want to have a thicker single brush instead of dual brushes.

Your pic isnt working.

http://www.xmodworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=8192
^This maybe some help as to motor timing?

The new armature I am designing will be 52t 26ga.

^WRAITH TRI-HELIX^

It is a tri helix ,90 degree design and may have slots , other than weight reduction is there an advantage to slotted armatures? Another thing I ponder is if the helix will affect motor timing due to position in the magnetic feild during coil ignition? any ideas on this?

i think its stacked. that thing would kill stock the second you pull the trigger on the controller. I cant wait to see how this turns out.

I like the CAD drawings (i do mechanical drafting). would this motor run on stock FETs or stacked?

That looks awesome! When you get a working proto type, I would like to purchase one and purhaps list them on my website....?

-Chris
XI

Entering stage 2 of devlelopment on WRAITH

Cost, at least for the prototype ,is budgeted at $300. So far in development I have not used any exotic manufacturing processes, or parts. Therfore ...the project should fall within 80% of budget.Keep in mind that this is one part of a much larger project which is still in the conceptual phase of development. That is why we chose to flesh out the the custom parts first for layout reasons. This design will undergo countless revisions as the whole project progresses.

Dude...this is just...awesome. :D
If you actually get this made, I will be extremely impressed. 8O
You CAD skills are as color0 said, amazing. 8O

This is plain awesome, you have done an amazing job already. 8O :D

I can't wait to see more on this, and what do you think you're going to spend making this motor?

~Junk ET

so... your going to make them motors faster than a X-2 Pro??

For modeling I use:Autocad2007, 3smax9, solidworks2006, and inventor10, dependent on what the job requires and the end users native software. For postwork I use psp7 and /or photoshopv9. I'm sort of a cad specialist. I'm for hire if anybody needs some visualizations or design verifications.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dravenwerks/videos/detail/#532/wraithe...

^ A new fly-around exploded view of WRAITH^

For modeling I use:Autocad2007, 3smax9, solidworks2006, and inventor10, dependent on what the job requires and the end users native software. For postwork I use psp7 and /or photoshopv9. I'm sort of a cad specialist. I'm for hire if anybody needs blueprints,technical illustrations,visualizations or design verifications.

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dravenwerks/videos/detail/#532/wraithe...

^ A new fly-around exploded view of WRAITH^

are u just using cad or are u using 3ds max as well

http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dravenwerks/videos/detail/#531/wraitht...
^A conceptual vid of wraith^

^A exploded veiw of wraith^

Good luck on those motors. the CAD and the description make them sound like they will be awsome. Get a movie in of their performance when you build one.

I'm not involved with werks racing.

Werk's as in Werks Racing, the poeple that make Nitro Cars?

thank you on the cad skills (i am for hire by the way) no holes in the magnets the vents only cool and do not extend into the magnets. as for the brushes i can conduct more amperage through 4 than two and keep them from melting down .

Hm, I see holes in the magnets, and too many brushes. :lol:

Besides that, your plan is very viable and I have to say, your CAD skills smoke mine. Very nice. :wink:

i have local machists do the machine work then send parts out for plating and anodization . i wind and build the armatures myself.

:P Sounds awesome. Ill be reaaally impressed when you get one made. You do your own machine work too, I guess?

The Wraith is based on 130 parts custom billit case, quad neo magnets ,and quad brushes ,50 turn 26ga silver mag wire with candy epoxy the 130 motor is a custom modified in development

What are the stats on both the motors? And is the wraith one based off a 180, or just totally one-off?

Im kinda interested in the 130 sized one, for this monster Im building: http://www.xmodworld.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=21786

Yes, plans are to make a actual prototype for a "prototype" 1g xmod chassis based, custom rc car. After that I may consider producing a small run for public sale.

That wraith looks fuggin mean.

Any plans to actualy make these? Nice 3D as well