i said i was gonna be using an AWD chassis, didn't mention 010 in there anywhere at all... :wink:

good stuff nonetheless, i guess those shims really do make all the difference. one question though, doesn't the MA-010 have preload adjusters on the springs (a la MR-02)?

Alrighty then. Yeah Color0, i like your idea, the real problem is that my motor can looks like swiss cheese. I drilled some serous holes in it... But i do like your idea. I could just glue the lexan sheet onto the motor holder. Probably work really well...

So my car is acting a little spotty right now. I think its the motor. But its handling really well.

Diff Conditions
So i used your pieces of plastic in the rear diff. I used 2 of them on the ouside of the gears to make sure to hold the teeth togher. Then i tightened it way down. Nearly 80%. When i turn the rear wheel it seems like the car has a tough time deciding whether or not to turn my NEO high torque motor or the other wheel... Sometimes it goes either way...Thats a perfect description.I lubed both diffs with Xmod Grease -white...

Stock Pinion
Motul Pitwork JGTC body - not shimmed...
Front END---
0.5 Camber, Atomic 15 tires-slick, PN racing 20.5 mm rim, 1.5 mm offset. Shimmed on underside with 1.3 mm LFT 1.8 mm rght teflon spacers, on delrin post. PN short racing Spring (white) on top, with xmod white grease. -1 degree toe steering.

Rear END---
1.5 Camber , Stock Slick tires-rear~Kyosho High grip 20, PN racing 20.5 mm rim 2.0 mm offset, Shimmed underside with 2.0 mm teflon spacer on delrin post, PN Short racing spring green, with xmod grease. 2.0 toe out...
39 turn (26 gauge wire, really packed on there, you cant fit another turn...) motor with neos and BB can. Undercarrage runner (lexan soon to be dragonplate for ground effects- big difference)

But as to what you said the differential shimming of the knucles made the difference for me, basically uneven spring compression on either side of the car...That combined with the semi locked diff overcame the torque steer considerably, (I found that the car would unweight one side and the wheel would come unlocked causing more oddites- one more reason to keep it pretty much stock....By the way when it was stock it did this much less! Almost unnoticeable).. Remember this setup wont drift worth a ...... But it races really really fast in this body. I threw on my 360 GTC and it works ok.. the motul body creates soo much more downforce . You can feel it in high speed long turns...

Hope this helps.

As for drifting, I switch the knucles to stock, remove the toes and go with kyosho drift tires sanded with 600 grit paper. Like Ice.........

Color0...As for your customization on the 010 for the longer body types it will have to be fast. I just saw a production model demo at my hobby shop that PN is releasing this month....98mm Oh yeah....And i tried an enzo and a mclauren on it already....Fits oh so nicely...Oh yeah the price will be about 20$.

you can put a sheet of thin plastic over the motor can, secure it with double-sided tape; when you really hate those shavings, peel off the plastic, wash, restick to motor.

since you do make a reference to motor positioning/diff style, i am worried than the pan type diff i'm putting in my design will cause MR-02 style torque steer. i hear a ball diff cures almost everything (which i did design a ball diff), but i still wonder.

do tell about what you did to the car, this has become a mini-z thread anyways. :)

Figured that reference would be appropriate due to your belt system ur working on.. But that info wasnt for you but you know that as well. AS for the update. If i remove either diff the torquesteer disappears...???Thats wierd....

I wouldnt say everything is better. Although the important things are heres a list off the top of my head that are worse..

Im using a gen 1 battery clip in my z right now. Far better quality.
Also i like the direction of the motor in the evos.

I also am a big fan of the fets in the evos. Compare powerdash in an evo ---nice and warm.....to powerdash in a z --sizzle, pop,smoke.

I also hate the zs motor placement, running on the bottom of the car...Come on??. My neo can looks like its growing a beard...

The fet placement in the awd sucks bad, You thought soldering a fet in was hard just wait, its about 3 mm away from a 1/2 inch tall box...!!!!

The crystal placement, vertical - wtf???

Body attachment. Does not compare to evos, side clips vs rear clip, rear is way better...

Just to name a few things i have found....

----
Ok so i spent 6 hours tuning the car tonight. Omygod it runs fast cornering even faster..... Torque steer is almost gone....Color0 i used your limited slip differential trick for xmods on the rear diff, thanks!!!..PM me if you want my info... Its not really appropriate on this forum. Wow its a dream now.

I really dotn understand why people compare mini z's to xmods . just because its the same scale ? man i love xmods but the quality isnt there. the mini z has better everything , honestly everything. but IMO its stupid to compare the two just because there the same scale , its like comparing an indycar to a buick regal. sure there about the same size but .....

read that web link ages ago... :lol:

the MA-010's major weakness is the torque steer, and if you really care about it, the ridiculous kingpin offset. but torque steer you can adapt to, so long as you keep the Tx wheel a bit to the side when you mash down on the throttle, it'll be okay. i drive my xmods (both gen 1's) that way, i'm not complaining much anymore. :)

also, if you set all the toe settings to zero you should be able to get a little less torque steer. and if it continues, you can add toe in or toe out so that the torque steer causes it to counter-veer, or something like that... i don't have the MA-010 so i can't exactly tell.

the thing about the MR-02's torque steer is the pan-style diff. there's less friction and rotational mass on one end, causing the rear right wheel to be very easy to spin compared to the rear left. that's why we get ball diffs though. :wink:

Here are my thoughts on it and my observations with the ma-010

First the observation.....
With an miniz awd you can straighten out your car really easy.. It can go straight for over 100 feet without vearing to the side at all. This can be done at low or high speed and it doesnt matter what speed it is at, the things go straight... So basically when accleration is zero the chasis is level and the car goes really straight.

So from what i understand there are two different types of torqe steer. They both are what they sound like, any steering aberration caused by torque. One is due to the torque of the drivetrain, gearbox, differential, on the wheels differentially. Like one wheel is getting more torque causing the car to steer to the side.. The second one and the one that i am experiencing is due to the rotational forces of a very torquey motor (39 turn handwound long arm, 26 ga, neos, bbcan..)..

Heres how it breaks down and my observations...Upon acceleration the car will dive to the side. This happens when the motor axis is in the direction of the cars path. Upon accleration the motor has torque on it, this twists the motor case counter to the direction of the pinion. This torque on the case is transferred to the body, and then loads the springs differentially. Making the car lean to one side. Now with a non zero toe out/in and a non zero camber the car will track in an arc with a radius inversly proportional to the torque. So basically the torque of the motor twists the car to the side making it steer differently and the greater torque the greater the turn.....

I will be testing it by locking my differentials tonight to see if it is drivetrain torquesteer or motor rotation torquesteer.

Side note....
The mro2 has the motor perpindicular to the direction of travel, that makes the car go straight, but change traction on the tires forward or reverse... The Gen 1 has torque steer, but the evo does not....The MA-010 has torque steer, but they tried to eliminate it by getting the motor off to one side of the chassis whereby reducing the mechanical advantage of the car...]

Here is a webpage that details it
http://www.schumacher.clara.co.uk/shaftbelt.htm

Mike,

I hear the term "torque steer" quite a bit. Can you describe what that means?

andrew...i absolutely love my xmod...i just bought another one if you check my other post...i could have bought a z with that, but i love xmods...so don't think we don't like xmods...cause i love mine.

if all you guys are wishing thats you bought z's than why are on x-mods site ?

so i should just do something like a 3x2 stack and a motor like the high standard v3 and maybe lithiums?? i love speed but if it takes out steering, theres no point really.. Maybe alll ill do is a 3x2 or 2x2 stack and not and not get a nelly..and stay stock until im absolutely crazing more speed...and where do i buy aluminum parts for my z? thanks so much for your help guys. :D

Thank you!!! Finally someone else.. I have thought this for a while now and i thought i was frecking out of my mind. A powerdash arm in a bb can with neos does not fry a single stack of stock fets on an xmod evo (I have three setup like this). But when i put it in my mini Z it trashed a single stack of 4562's, and they have a higher amp load.... 8O

Im actually getting kinda pissed at my mini z. The torque steer is unbearable right now. If im going down a straight away i cant even gun it at all otherwise my car will lurch into the siderail (right). But it goes perfectly straight otherwise.... The motor is situated like it was in a gen 1 so that any heavy torque rotates the body.

color0, im working on that project as we speak (mclauren on an awd ) and Kudos to the Road Less Driven...

[I have written this next section for this post about 5 times each time i have deleted it because i dont want to come off the wrong way but here it is....]

As for liths on a mini Z the double stacked and offset batteries should make it pretty easy to custom rig some liths on there....But i think that a larger motor defeats the purpose of this car. This car is like a mid engine ferrari. Yes it does have a lowish center of mass (not as good as a mro2) and a small polar moment of inertia as well (batts and motor together in center of car). So the car can be a bit squirrely at times, i think i would prefer a larger polar moment for drifting but thats just me... So a muscle car setup with a super motor in this car would make it pretty much useless imo. Keep it light and agile with a fairly strong torquish motor, and race tune it... Thats my opinnion.

I think that if you would get the liths and the nelly and a fatboy or a plasma, you might think this car sucks(every time you step on it hard it would jump into the rail). The performance will be increasingly difficult to tune and expensive as well. Use your money on camber knucles and driveshaft and bearings to begin with , these are the best ways to make your car fast...I know you are experienced with fast cars, but faster is not better in this case....Thats the last rant i promise...If you think im full of bull, i have 6 sets of liths right next to my car, 10 more fets (i get them demoed to me) and a pattern wound 28 turn motor as well, but i wont put them in. This car doesnt need it. Its would take away from the performance.

i would get a woah nelly, but i dont know how to install it onto a mini z...is it as easy as an xmod?? im scared to do it by myself...thanks guys

the MR-02 is not supposed to be a good drifter, it has a low CG, low polar moment of inertia... and that's exactly why i want to drift it, i like doing what's popularly deemed impossible. unless you really know what you're doing, get the MA-010 for drifting. (i'm pretty darn sure i know what i'm doing.)

the kyosho board should not be more touchy than the xmod board... and don't get the V2.2 either. get a woah nelly from ph2t.

the v2.2 is better in mini-z that way you have no worries its worth the $10 or $15 more because the boards on mini z's are a little more touchy than an xmod, thats why you have to do a 3x2 stack for the same motors with a 2x2 stack on an xmod. I have a mini-z monster with li, v2.2, and plasmatomic, and it'll smoke an xmod stacked!

i totally agree hamster, some of there prices are way to much. but i have heard nothing bad about their quality. i said i was going to get the v2.2 board in a mini z when i ordered it, but is to much, i think ill just get a 3x2 stacked fets.

dude atomicmods is now expensive cuz the new years discount is over :?

would the mr02 be a better drifter than the awd? and where can i get the mro2...did you say the electronics where better in the mr02? how is it better? and does it really have better response time? thanks

edit: i think i might get the awd with v2.2 board installed and a nuke and liths...will the lith ions hold up with this setup?

lol... i'm madly obsessed with drifting too, and so i'm getting the MR-02 to drift with :lol: i'm pretty sure that with the better electronics, faster response time, any kyosho car can be drifted.

ive decided i'm gonna get the awd when i do get one....i am madly obsessed with drifting....is it hard to install liths on the awd chassis? cause if not, im gonna order liths, but not get them installed for a while. thanks guys :D

note to mike: the mclaren is one of the lightest autoscales, which accounts for the speed, and to an extent, the twitchy handling. but i plan on putting the mclaren on an AWD platform, which should explain everything. i have an nsx readied for the MR-02 chassis. :)

i believe ph2t or someone answered the MA-010 vs. MR-02 question. if you're running indoors, on RCP, the AWD has more traction, and can turn in faster laps. outdoors, on less technical tracks, the MR-02's simpler drivetrain and lower rolling resistance, plus the rear damping, will run faster.

Note to Color0: From what i hear the Mclauren is the fastest of the Mr02s. And it looks soo damn nice as well. But i really like the Gulf Racing Mclauren. I wish it fit the awd.....

As for your question as to what to get, an mro2 or a ma010. Thats personal, kinda like what xmod to get. They both have their advantages. Right now the racing advantage is for the mr02, but i give that less than 1/2 a year for people to really get these things upgraded and tuned. My local hobby shop guy who has all the upgrades for himself for free, says his ma010 kicks his mr02's tail pipe. Its like xmods, whats faster stock, probably a rwd, throw some fets on there and a supped up motor and an awd will kick the crap out of a rwd. Plus drifting is soo nice with the 4wd. wow..... But i wouldnt go throwing liths on there. Drive it the way it comes for a while, i think you will like it that way, maybe get a motor and some fets.. Then some metal and tune the crap out of it. I already have two sets camber knuckles, ~20 sets of rims 2 tie bars, two rear toe outs, ~5 different degree slicks, bearings, modified diff, springs... etc... I just need to finish my track so i can put each on and off to find what makes it faster than greased lightning right now....

PS..Sand your drifting tires for foam tracks. Use 400 then 600 grit. Wow that makes a difference...

ak,

haven't received my AWD yet, but made my decision based on my race area. Small indoor track with need for great maneuverabilty around turns. I have heard te AWD has a big advantage in this situation. I have also seen people who mainly prefer outdoor hard surfaces - cement or asphalt say the non-AWD perfroms better there.

do you guys think i should get the AWD version or a 2wd drive z?

note to self: the silver mclaren f1 must be an extremely popular readyset, it's out of stock basically everywhere. and rcmart no longer sells readysets. darn this...

andrew...they are the same scale as xmods.

z ? arnt they them small cars that the canadians have almost like zip zaps ? pm plz

AM's site says they are out.

I got mine from RCkenon. The guy there is really nice. They also have an awesome set of rims, all the diffferent offsets you would ever need. At 20.5 mm.

Great prices.

My delivered cost from Atomic mods is $177. That includes and extra autoscale body. That of course assumes I ever get it. Ordered on Dec. 15th 2005 and have not received it yet.

I found the MA010 at a great price here: http://www.micromotorsport.net/zen/

And only $8 ground shipping, the grand total would be $168. That is the cheapest price I have seen for a brand new MA010.

I was trying different arms in it... I used a uberdash, hyperdash 2, powerdash.... Just curious as to what it could take....I blew the original stack with the powerdash arm, then i made a 3x3 stack but one of my connections was bad and it turned into a 3x1 stack, hook onto there a uberdash and you are toast. Etc.....

So i guess i was screwing around. the fets on there are really good. But the 4562s are better... Now i got a 3x2 on there... No messing around...

mike,

why are you burning fets?

mike- you're right; that's weird. *sticks tongue out in silly expression*

for the readysets, AM is actually not a bad place, $140 is a good price for an MR-02. i'd go to rcmart or mini-zracer for hop-ups though. actually, MZR carries readysets for $140 as well. bingo. :)

ak,

lots of places to buy Z parts. Atomicmods is one. RC MArt is another if you don't mind buying from Hong Kong. ANother Hong Kong dealer is Toy East. I get my GPM parts direct from GPM in Hong Kong and have no issues, get reasonably fast shipping (7-11 days) and pay less for parts + shipping than from U.S. dealers.

For U.S. dealers try:

TinyRC
one28thrc

avoid

MiniZstore

alright...if i a get a mini z i think im gonna get the awd skyline...which color should i geT? and i'm having atomic mods install liths, a nuke, and stack my fets 2x2 or 2x3...thanks for all your help guys. :D

Agree completely

[quote:6940f5ccb7="color0"]
mike- on a kyosho car the FETs are on the bottom. you can stack 2x2 on an MR-02 with no problems.