yeah, it works great. only problem is i'm inside in a room with tables and chairs and stuff wich means lots of interference. next semester i think i'm going to try to build something like science mikes track.

Sounds like you have a great set up now.

wow, this forum hasn't moved much since last time. anyways i tried the garden hose thing and it works great. the sand gives the garden hose enough weight so that it doesn't move to much when the cars hit it. you do need to tape some sections like the ends down but all in all it works great. the advantage is that you can change the track around easily and switch around the track layout.

his name be ph2t.

I have not tried this, but I know others who have via their posts. There is a guy in AUstralia who uses this as his favorite track method. Not dure how he anchors things to the ground or if the hose with sand is good enough. I have used PVC filled with sand and found that it does a pretty good job. I tend not to use sand because I like smaller portable sections that we reconfigure every few days. Or used to before moving to China. Now our street is perfect without a need for a track. We just put some cones out and drive around them. The speed bumps are great barriers also. Lucky that we have a nice smooth cement street.

i'm thinking about trying standard garden hose filled with sand to give it some weight. has anybody tried anything like that?

Well - I will be building SciencMike tracks irails in the near future. Plan to leace my basement area for mainly monster play or serious racing. However, the PVC bordered track is a great permanent installation, but too combersome to easily move as I have it set up.

Every week my son has friends over and supervising them across 4 floors of the house is impossible. So plan to seal off thebasement and put a temporary setup in the living room when they come over. Likely an 8x6 area with foam railing edges that are easy to set up/tear down.

Windmill, it looks like your editing worked here. Good Job. As for the size of the photos, they aren't that bad. Maybe a little large but its nothing to worry about..

ScienceMike,
Sorry about the width of the pic's. I'm rather computor dumd, and to be honest, I amzed myself that I got the pic's posted to PhotoBucket & then transfered to here. If you could PM me with instrutions on how to do that editing, I will be MORE than happy to do it. I agree, they make for a pain-in-the-@$* when trying to read. Sorry to all.
As for the windmill stuff, we have many windmills around our house, and I have a buziness named Windmill Auto.
The Oval wood track is made with lamenatted panels 1/2 thick with a VERY SMOOTH wood venier on one side. It allows for VERY smooth joints,it's 22ft X 8ft8in, the end 4ft are adjustable for 0deg -26degree banking. the pic has 6degrees in it. Takes less than 5 min to change the amount of banking.And the hose works GREAT if you get the right hose.
Looking forward to seeing your track

WINDMILL===
Is your screen name named after the windmill in your back yard... Very nice RCP and outside tracks. Could you edit the post to include some returns between your pics so they are more narrow. The forum tries to keep things one page width... Im not a mod or anything...Just a person who cares...Also I do love your outside roller rink like track. I love how you make one end tip up. That is awesome. thats the best idea for a banked corner i have seen yet. I have some 90's that bank but its not enough to really carry your speed it needs to be a 180 to really do it... Great job. How do you like your garden hose for a rail???. Do the cars stick to it a lot or deflect off nicely. Is that masonite you drive on? If you want to make it more changeable A nice piece of Ozite carpet to throw onto the racing surface would give you two different surfaces to go on...I hear ozite is awesome, and because your track is permanent in its shape i thought you could just cut the carpet and lay it over the masonite when you wanted some super hook ups..

Some experiments i did lately...

I found that one layer of 3/4 inch foam is plenty for any of my cars. It keeps them on the track and if its 90 degrees they never go over it. Although they might roll over it, if they were a truck but thats not an issue with my cars...... Although i dont have the old muscle cars to try out here so i dont know if 3/4s is tall enough for them. But for the g35, corvette, skyline and mini Zs its plenty tall enough. That should make the price drop even more. How i found this out last night is i raced for 3 or 4 hours in my apartment on my new track.... I made corners that are 3/4,1 1/2, and 2 1/4 inches high. There was absolutely no differences between the 3/4 and 2 1/4 inch rails.... None.. I have some pretty fast cars as well. My g35 has liths and an uberdash. Never went over the rail once... Rails were perfect... I didnt try the felt last night but ill be trying it soon. Not tonight my girlfriend would kill me if i raced on Valentines day...I wonder how 3/8ths or 1/2 of an inch rail would do???? Well ill have to find out...

Also i completed glueing all of my outside rails so they zipp onto the track using the extra foam mat edge pieces. Wow, the track gets setup now in about 5 minutes. Its soo fast. Thats my biggest problem now is that i would love to have a permanent track at my house like steveR does or my parents do, but thats not gonna happen anytime soon. So for now i need to optomize my setup time... This new system of setup is soo much faster than RCP, you simply push the rail into place. No screws and crud like that. It just zipps into line.... And for stability i ran my g35 into it from a 20 foot straight away at full speed over and over and i couldnt move it off of the tile... Secure. I think so.

Ill get pics up of the track edges as well as the foam, and hopefully a movie of the deflection characteristics of all the rails this weekend. If i get my camera back...(In the shop..)

8O 8O 8O

We have a PCV track; 3 RCP tracks, (108 tiles combined), that we hook together 4 racing; and 1 wood track that I made. Our wood track, a 22ft X 81/2ft oval with adjustable banking, was our 1st track. We had made it with thin panneling for side rails, but they were VERY hard on the cars. After triing a few different things, 1 day one of my garden hose broke, and I decided to try using it for railing. We cut holes in it every 6 in. so we could tie-strap it to the walls. The end joints were eazy, just 3inches of a 5/8 wooden dowelslid inside. If a person watches at Goodwill, Yard sales, Second hand stores, he can pick up old hoses CHEAP! Just watch what kind you get. There are hard & soft hose. As for how to make the water noodles or other foam that is too sticky slick, our RCP track recomended using " Packing Tape ". We have applied it to all of our RCP rails, and LOVE how it works. We have even had to remove some for repairs after hard hits, and it comes right off.
As far as what kind of track is best,,, ANYWHERE one can run their car is fun!! We enjoy racing on different surfaces, on a regulre basis. hoses.

What is the blue foam, and where do you get it?

Yeah, I have to stay true to myself and whip up on the kids. Today was better though, some of the kids did very well for there first time racing them. I still have to post those results. The kids are 7th and 8th graders

great jobs guys

you should get rolls of cheap cloth from a arts/sewing store and wrap that aroudn the pvc, then staple it on. That way it cushions the impact and also allows the car to slide off, unless the car has some hooks or spikes or something and you're going destruction derby style.. Although in that scenario i dont think you would need impact material...

adgators: your track looks very clean. Oh and those are some lucky kids to have you as a teacher! I checked the race results and it looks like you are showing no mercy when it comes to who wins the races though, lol

Mike: your track is looking awesome man. I haven't had much time to qork on the track this week since I just bought a new computer and have been playing with it trying to get it set up how I want it. I did manage to find time to head over to Radio Shack and pick up another Evo chassis though since they were on sale for $49, hehe.

Hey Poo_head, heres the pic you wanted of my track. I actually got to lay some out and race a little tonight.
Heres a backed up view of the track for you .... So you can see the cars

Here is an over the wall photo. So you can see the height...

Heres another extreme over the wall photo. You can see the detail of the wall and how tall it is compared to the cars.

I did a lot of testing on the track tonight and i found that my walls are slightly higher than RCP walls = 1/4 of an inch. I also used two layer high walls and found for most applications they were sufficent. The three high walls are kind of useless.....Im switching to two high. Thats 1 1/4 inch high for these and for my permanent ones 1 3/8 in.

I also tested the teflon tape out tonight. If your car has Canards (???i dont know what they are called. Little fins on the front..) It will tear through the teflon tape. Failure.... :cry:

So i proceeded to test the different wall materials. My foam deflects the cars much better than RCP material. After all its cut from the same material as the eva tracks that we choose for great traction. So i had an idea that was spawned from someone in this forum, to use plastic. thin plastic. I found a thin plastic cutting board from the kitchen and the car slides the rail. maybe a little too good. But it definately was unpokeable and gave a much lower coefficent of friction. A step in the right direction... Ill look into cheap thin plastic to lay on the sides of the foam. Like a Blind or somthing...

Think about it people would you...It needs to be about 2-5 cents per foot and about 1 inch high and really flexible and soft plastic. About as soft and thin as a 2 liter soda bottle side...

Love it adgator!

BTW - since we have a new track forum you could start a new thread with your track.

I have to edit that post, the link was missing a letter

http://www.geocities.com/adgators89/xmod.htm

Sorry about that

Here are the pictures of the track I currently have setup. I included the way I attached the rails (PVC) so that you can get an idea of that i you do not want to put holes in your mats

here are the pictures of my track. I put them on my teaching website

http://www.geocities.com/adators89/xmod.htm

if you want to see anything else just let me know, I just threw that site together to post the pics right now, hopefully I will get some more stuff on there sone.

Adgator - very cool. What age are the kids?

You are the coolest teacher.... i wish i had you as a teacher... Yup throw your track in the track section. Also try to take a video.

The track is setup in my classroom at school, so I wil take pics tomorrow and post them. I just have a basic 12 x 8 setup right now. we just got underway with racing and the students are still practicing steering so It is just a huge Oval/rectangular track. have other designs ready to go, but I am going to change layouts by the week for the elective class.

Ok, I'll post pics tomorrow.

can you post a pic like the one above with your xmods to show how big those tiles/rails are in comparison?

just wanna know so i can see how much i might need to work the space i've got, when/if i decide to make this

sorry if that was a bit off topic :oops:

adgators - post pics.

Wow, nice progress on your track. The one with the out of bounds green turf is really awesome as well. Great job guys.

I figured out a good way to secure my pvc pipe railings down. I used the velcro tie straps that can be found in any computer, office supply, or even I saw them at Home Depot. What I did for the outside pieces was I tied it around the borders and the pvc. For the inner part of the track I tied it around a interlocking puzzle piece. Worked great

I am running a extra curricular elective for my students in 7th and 8th grades right now with the XMODS and the track ideas that you guys helped me with really paid off. I love it and the kids love it as well.

The only disadvantage to pvc I see is the pipes are a little strong and if they are bowed they do not unbow. I am kind of a neat freak, so I like things to line up perfectly and in some spots they are a little off because of the pipe bow. I also have tghe black pipe insulation foam covering them, looks good and works well, but the cars do kind of stick to it. But it's progress and I'm getting there.

Oh yeah i agree. I think we should write a review of these two systems. Both are equally strong in their own ways. I dont want people to think that one way is better than the other, both are strong just in different ways. Maybe when we get done we shoud do a tag-team tutorial for tracks helping everyone the most... Btw i dont think i got around to telling you how cool your boarder rail is. Thats exactly what you needed.....

EDIT+

Heres some pics of the rail on the track. Can you say clean looking. I need to make the corner joints, and those arent the realy outside corners either so dont complain they dont link up. But thats the basic idea.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/ScienceMike/IMG_3188.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/ScienceMike/IMG_3190.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/ScienceMike/IMG_3186.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c187/ScienceMike/IMG_3185.jpg

Well - it's not the money - it's the fun. BTW - with foam mats and PVC/insulation I am way cheaper than RCP and way more flexible. Also more complicated designs fit in a smaller space.

Same with your tracks

Thanks steve. Im using a really sharp razor blade and a metal square. But when i get the sandwiches done ill move to a table saw. That will make them perfectly matched up. Now im cutting each layer by hand. I was trying to keep it doable for most people.

I was saying that i would like to paint the edge of my track near the rail to make it smooth so the cars dont bite soo hard. Heres what im thinking of...Ill make a stencil to paint it quickly. Two coats of primer 2 coats of yellow Solid line, one coat of red, maybe a gloss coat or two....

As for this subject i think we still have some way to go. What we have now is a rip off of RCP. Plus a smooth layer. I would like to be able to lay my rails on their side for smoother collisions. Or lay the rails down flat to cover the smooth paint and have stickier rails, advanced driving. I would also like to begin experimenting with roughing up foam tracks so they are just like RCP. RCP owners cant say they have that up on us either....After all with all this prototyping i think i could have bought a few RCPs. I dont even want to tabulate the time, money or effort we have put into this.

I still dont have corners that everyone can make yet. Those will come next weekend. Keep tuned in... I do really like an out of bounds corner system Like astroturf, Not a solid rail, but grounds that you have to go through rough and slows your car way down. Like in the pic in your post steve... I have some rounded corners being made, but some astroturf ones would be way cool as well. Like in the hairpin center of this course..

Anyways everyone keep giving ideas the more the better. Thanks for all the encouragement.

Mike - you are close to perfection! May have to move over to a lap counter discussion again. There's not much left to do here.

BTW - how are you cutting your mats - table saw?

great ideas, and nice looking rails.

Sorry about the sideways cell phone pics but here are some working samples. First and foremost here is how they are made...These are working prototypes please dont tell me to cut the edges nicer or the tape isnt on nicely. They will be cut as one piece as a sandwich once i decide how tall and such i want them to be.

You make the rail by cutting the green box. Therefore there are 9 rails per tile (wal mart). Then you place red foam spacer inside to make it the height you want it. Lastly if you look in the prototype picture you can add teflon tape to layers of your rail to make them icy smoth (Red tape, bottom picture.)

Here are the prototypes...
In picture 1 you see two rails, an outer rail and an inner rail. The outer rail zipps onto your track so you dont have to cut anything. It just attaches like any other tile does. If you are going to make your track without hairpins in it this is the way to go. Otherwise you will need the inner rail (Left) It will be attached via posts(still working on them)

Here you can see a rail partially zipped into the course. Far end is attached to the mat and to another rail..Remember these are interlockable.

This last pic is a prototype of how the teflon tape will work. Looped in between stacks to ensure attachment.

Here are two photos for height comparison. I know its a awd Z but its the same scale as xmods and i drifted for lunch today so its the only car i have on me.

Also i know that the tape is too high. It will be on the bottom layers.
[

I will be securely attaching my rails to inside pieces with holes. But if you do not want to all you have to do is use the outside zipper piece. As for if you drive somthing that needs some height, make your rails adjustable by adding in more spacers (blue) and using a bolt through the stack.

I will be using tape and a painted line on my tiles. I will paint a white and red dashed line 1.5 inches thick next to where each wall meets. That will allow the cars to bounce a little better. Slick paint means less traction... Ill get a stencil made soon.

Smodep- As for paint on the water noodles it might work, but i know spray paint eats up most types of foam.

I will be testing all of these and providing more feedback and i will tell you when i come to an agreement on what is best.

As for the price, you do the math, one tile per 9 rails = 18 foot of rail per tile. Each tile at walmart 11$/6 = about 1.80 per tile. Therefore, 10 cents per foot, plus glue and insert foam. I just bought 1000 square foot of 3/4 inch slick closed cell foam for 50$ on ebay (Can you say 800 square foot drifting track!!!). Basically that makes my foam almost free for a 24 inch by 2 inch section. But the foam in my prototype is 6$ for 12 square foot at walmart.
So these rails might cost you 20 Cents per foot.
EDIT #1----
I just made 30 rails. I did that with 2 layers of blue foam, one layer of Tile. That makes it cost about..

One layer of blue=
3.5 tiles x 1.80 = 6.30$
30 pieces (30 pieces/sheet of blue foam)= 6$
Total = 13$ for 60 foot of interlocking rail. enough for 30 foot of straight away...

Double layer blue =
3.5 tiles x 1.80 = 6.30$
60 pieces (30 pieces/sheet of blue foam) = 12$
Total 18$

Im telling you this rail looks sooo clean on a track. It looks black from above but has blue sides... Soo nice. When its cut properly its soo nice.

Alternatively you could also use no blue (Just spacers) ill post pics and that should drastically cut down on the price per foot. Maybe down to 10$.

What about packing foam and a thin lexan cover over it?

hey mike would it be possible to spray paint the water noodles so they are still shock absorbent but also they wont be so sticky and stop your car when you hit it?.......it was just an idea that popped in my head when i read this thread........when i build my track eventually i plan to make a scale tsukuba secuit........i think it'll be fun......but yah i just thought i would give a little input on the subject.......hope it helps but i dont know....i havent even seen a real track.....so yah........just an idea

adgators,

several suggestions and rough cost breakdowns. First to hold down the rails, depends on the area you put them. If you have a big area the outer rails can be pinned to the walls or use cinder blocks to contain them. For example:

If you want to pin down the interior rails without punching holes in the mats I have done this:

Now for the first picture above, I am rebuilding the the interior rails and because I did double barriers (two levels of PVC) I don't want to pin the rails to the outer barrier with the overhead rail idea. However, m inner area is now so big I can connect all the inner barriers together with overhead rails and the mass of the whole think will be fairly heavy.

I also have successfully cable tied down rails to the mat without punching holes by wrapping around one of the teeth at the edge of a puzzle mat. For a 12' rail, one cable tie every 2 feet is sufficient. That is one at the border spot of two mats. Can make a photo if you can't figure it out. I have successfully done this for interior rails also. They install/deinstall rather quickly.

For costs, yesterday at Lowe's

1/2" PVC - 350 PSI rated was $0.78 for 10'
1/2" PVC - 600 PSI rated was $1.29 for 10' (I prefer this because it is heavier)
10 PVC Tee connectors $1.18
10 PVC Elbow connectors $1.18

At Home Depot

6' polyehtylene 1/2" iron pipe insulation was $1.32

cost breakdown would be great. I am in the process of putting a track together myself and currently working on the edges and inner track rails. I just have PVC and some black pipe insulation. I don't really want to put any holes in the track since I want to change track layouts. Does anyone have any suggestions or what they have done to avoid putting holes in the mats

Great work Mike! Can't wait to see the pics....
Can you give us a rough estimate on cost breakdown?

That pic is just his sig... ANyways i got 52 prototype rails done. Perfect..... I also found some mylar/ teflon coated sticky paper to attach. The best part is it comes in any color..... Ill get the pics up sometime soon. They are just as i pmd you guys. Multiple layers and interlockable. Cant wait to race them.

i know it's just that that thing is huge! (to me that is)

poo,

did you get the right thread? We are discussing track railings/edges.

8O

My double barrier system for containing Mini-Z Monster Trucks. Fully tested with XMODs and Mini-Z Monsters. At 14'x13' and bounded by a wall and three basement poles, I only needed some support with cinder blocks on the other two edges. No need to attach the rails to the mats. I placed supports - T connections every 40" so I get three pieces out of a 10' piece of PVC. Anything longer and the top rail sags. I only padded the conncetor Tees on the bottom level of the railing for the XMODs. Will work on interior race tracks over the next week. Because they will be large, I will likely have it fully assembled an hanging from hooks on the ceiling joists for quick removal and setup. We do like our freestyle play without interior barriers.

Thanks ScienceMike ...

i have 12 2x2 tiles and i hate it cuz i cant find a border.
mike, cant wait to see what you have in store for us. your stuff is always awsome.

i used to nail wood into the tile but that did not work so well.
yeah, i have the problem with the cars rticking and knex doesent work. i need a border so im experimenting also.

Now Steve is over 100 years old! hahaha, oh man that is too funny.

Anyways back on topic I think we are really getting somewhere here. I can't wait to see your prototype rails Mike, for now I am just going to practice honing my driving skills. 8)

pm'd ya

hey, who doesn't want to be younger? :wink:

depending on what you want, the ultimate track rail could go like this...

find a slick, flexible material. (wax paper? *shrug*)
find a foam to back it up.
find a solid thing to back that up and create the actual wall.

so, when you hit the wall, your car slides into the wax paper and slides off back into the race. *shrug*

ya nice i was trying to get them mats but all i saw were thouse bigs ones i bought some of the gust to mess around but were are u guys getting them small ones ? PLz privet message me... THANKS

SteveR1860, no sweat about the age thing...
About the PVC. I am now using some pvc in my track as well. I drilled holes in it so i can fit 3/8 inch dowels through it. I use these for the really long straight aways. I find that the cars dont really hit it that hard on a straight away. . Its always more of a graze. I find the holes aren't really anything to notice. Even if you have them on the course 3/8 in is soo small that the tires glide over them without incident.

We have been attacking this problem from two different ways. One side uses the large (good) and less adjustable (bad) pvc, the other side uses repeating units of smaller rail (bad) to make a large piece that is very adjustable (good). A union of these is needed.

As for the smaller rail approach there are many problems with its state right now thats why i havent done a tut on it. I wont tell people how to do somthing that they will just be unhappy with....One of the largest drawbacks is that the rails are not interconnectable like the RCP rails are this makes them uneven and somtimes your car gets caught on the seam..... Also consistancy of width is an issue, its tough for most people to slice water noodles, i created a tube to do it for me using perpendicular foam cutting wire mounted into a tube guide. All i have to do is plug it in, slide the water noodle through and it comes out perfectly sliced into 90 degree sectors. Then i push the dowels in it and its on the track in 60 seconds. Thanks to sean94z who found the water noodles for 2 dollars at K mart, that makes it 10 cents a foot .....Cheap and EASY........... But Im not happy with the way this rail works. It sometimes works its way out of the holes if you use less than 3 posts per rail. I also dont like how its different shaped on each side (FRONT AND BACK), curved on one and 90 Degrees on the other. Its also too grippy. But then again i raced my RCP track last night and found the rails to be just as grippy. Interesting note i found the grippyness is more dependent upon the tires than on the car. One of the biggest things to overcome in a car on this scale is breaking the static friction between the tires and the foam. For example when you are racing with drifting wheels you just boucnce right off easily but 10 degree super slicks and you are going to go backward along your same path. Now,,, if your rails are slightly angled up maybe 80 degrees i beleve that they would lift the car slightly allowing it to change its direction and Softly get pushed back on track (no Pun intended) ... Maybe even a lower lip like freeway medians have... Ill work on that...ANyways expect a prototype to be posted on monday. Then by the following weekend i should have my entire 2 tracks redone...

Sean i really like your paper like surface stuck to the front of the rails. I was thinking of linoleum or somthing that can stick on that wont come off.. Anyone have any ideas?????

Good topic. We are not yet at the ultimate solution. I think another disadvantage of PVC is how does one pin it down? I have the advantage of having a couple of walls to pin it against and use some cinder blocks on the outside on the other two sides. Fine for a basement or garage, but not fine for a mat on a hardwood floor.

I have also figured out how to use cable ties to attach the perimeter barriers of the track to the mat without drilling holes. But for the interior barriers, the bigger the track gets, the greater the need to pin things down. One can go to heavier and larger PVC - 3/4" for example, but that dramatically increases costs. As you folks have seen (see site in my signature) I have used overhead rails to help out. As I design my 14x13' setup, this will be more cumbersome but doable and what I will implement. Also, moving it in and out quickly will be more difficult. Nevertheless, I expect to be able to move it in and out in less than 3 minutes. The rub is, when I want a different design, I have to have a completely different set of premade interior barriers ready. The insulated and preconnected interior barriers I use cannot be disconnected on the fly and then quickly reassembled in a different configuration. Why? Because I tape the fittings to the PVC and then cover with insulation. The tape insures that when a car rams a barrier it does not cause the pipe to pop out of the conncector. So, that leads to noinal extra costs and the need to store quite a bit more PVC assemblies. These are not small. Fine for a basement or garage, but hard to deal with if you want portability r to iuuse in your living room.

Now, I have to say, the RCP solution is not the ultimate either.

BTW - Mike - thanks for knocking 20 years of my age with the Steve1980 typo.